[MathSoc Council] Council Meeting October 16th

Elizabeth McFaul elizabethmcfaul2 at gmail.com
Wed Oct 16 18:24:51 EDT 2013


I had thought I would be able to make tonights meeting, but that's sadly
not the case due to work (now) and other commitments (later). I will make a
few comments on the Elections Changes however.

*Ultimately, I think that Febrian has identified some great concerns with
the voting system, but I don't think that changing the calculation
mechanism will address these.*

1. The argument that few people can run through the calculations making it
less transparent isn't correct- people with CO (or MATH239) knowledge can
perform the calculations once they have the data. We've also provided full
explanations of the results in the past as a reference. I personally
understood the past results, and I've barely taken any Math courses of that
nature.

2. The argument that not many people know how the system works or can
administer it won't actually be solved by changing the calculation
mechanism. Changing the calculation still requires there to be an
associated voting system attached, and people still need to be trained on
it. Instead of spending time resources on recoding/getting a new system, we
should spend them on teaching people how to administer elections, or making
the system easier.

3. If we are concerned about students not knowing how their votes are
counted, we should address that, not change the mechanism and start over on
educating people.

4. Sean's comments about multi-term appointments should also be taken into
account.

5. We currently use one of the most mathematically correct calculations,
and it's become part of the MathSoc image. Something to consider.

6. Finally, I think that this is a bit rushed. If we are considering
changing the system, students should have input. The decision to change to
a new calculation should be one for a General Meeting, not just council.
I'd rather see us put forward a report to the GM, and have the decision
made there.

*In short, we shouldn't change the voting system for the reasons presented.
We should work on communicating how votes are calculated better to students
and training people on administering elections/simplifying the front-end of
the system.*

**I'm trying to refer to the system as the complete voting
computerized/programmed thing, and BC-STV or Schulz or whatever as the
calculation mechanism. Hopefully that makes things clearer.



On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 5:01 PM, Josh T <draconicdarkness at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I have looked at Dominik's point of contention and conclude that there
> does seem to be a gap between bylaws and policy. I was operating under the
> assumption that presidents had non-voting member status (and the fact that
> they had to give permission to their representatives for them to be able to
> speak) because that's how I was told it were the case. For council to adopt
> either stance this requires a week notice, and we don't have a stance on it
> either way by (voting) members. In the meantime, I shall assume that
> presidents of clubs have non-voting member status and if someone objects,
> they can bring this up at the meeting.
>
> For the policy changes, since one week's notice was not given, they
> require a 2/3 majority in council to pass.
>
> The rough order of events (non-binding) which will happen as follows:
>
>    1. Minutes
>    2. Ratification of new Councillors
>    3. WatelooWorks Presentation w/ Amy Woroch (About 6)
>    4. CSC Budget Update
>    5. Feds Fee Reduction Presentation w/ Sacha
>    6. Mathletics Report
>    7. SSO Presentation w/ Jeff Henry (About 7)
>    8. Election Procedure Policy Change
>    9. Clubs Presidents Policy
>    10. Clubs Funding Policy
>
> Josh
>
>
>
>
> On 16 October 2013 10:10, Matthew Kit Wing Cheung <
> matthewkwcheung at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Josh,
>>
>> Can you add these two items to the agenda?
>> 1) Mathletics Report
>> 2) Clubs Funding Policy (see council's opinions on two changes. First,
>> should funding rules change because many clubs are in surplus. Second,
>> MathSoc must approve every expense on the budget or they don't get
>> reimbursed, should MathSoc implement any policy around clubs spending money
>> from their own bank accounts? Currently, there are no guidelines to how
>> clubs can spend money received from membership fees.)
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Matthew
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Josh T <draconicdarkness at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> According to Robert's Rules of Order, if we adopt an agenda we must
>>> follow it because to deviate from it we need to suspend the rules. Since we
>>> have a presentation at 6 with some indeterminate amount of time between
>>> that presentation finishing up and the presentation at 7, I think it would
>>> be counter productive to commit to an order because that will lead to
>>> confusion.
>>>
>>> However, the current things are to be discussed at the meeting in some
>>> order (currently sorted by FIFO)
>>>
>>>    1. Minutes
>>>    2. Ratification of new Councillors
>>>    3. SSO Presentation w/ Jeff Henry (About 7)
>>>    4. CSC Budget Update
>>>    5. Election Procedure Policy Change
>>>    6. Feds Fee Reduction Presentation w/ Sacha
>>>    7. WatelooWorks Presentation w/ Amy Woroch (About 6)
>>>    8. Clubs Policy?
>>>
>>> I shall sort these items (and take a look at clubs policy when I get the
>>> chance to) in some order which I will hope that minimizes wasting our
>>> presenters' and councilors' time.
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh
>>>
>>>
>>> On 14 October 2013 13:25, Dominik Chłobowski <
>>> dchlobow at csclub.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Alright, after some discussion with Darcy, I have some detail to
>>>> include on my request.
>>>>
>>>> I think a decision has to be made between the following two sides:
>>>> 1. Allow club presidents to be non-voting members.
>>>> 2. Clarify Clubs Policy 6.2.5 to state that club
>>>> presidents/representatives are only expected(/sponsored) to speak toward
>>>> motions concerning the club.
>>>>
>>>> By the way, Josh, is there an Agenda? I'd like to know if CSC's budget
>>>> changes are to be discussed at this meeting.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> Dominik Chłobowski
>>>> Treasurer, CSC
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2013/10/14 Darcy Alemany <dtaleman at uwaterloo.ca>
>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, ignore that last message, I misread the definition.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 12:44 PM, Darcy Alemany <dtaleman at uwaterloo.ca
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> According to the bylaws, the definition of a voting member includes
>>>>>> "The President of any society recognized by the Federation, or their
>>>>>> respective designates." The word 'designates' involves some sort of
>>>>>> appointment or official designation, so in my understanding it doesn't
>>>>>> follow that non-President club execs become non-voting members in the
>>>>>> President's absence unless the President says otherwise. Rather, it's the
>>>>>> opposite: non-President execs of clubs are not members of Council, even in
>>>>>> the President's absence, unless the President specifically designates them
>>>>>> or they are a member for some other reason.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Dominik Chłobowski <
>>>>>> dchlobow at csclub.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Incorrect. When the president of a club is not attending, another
>>>>>>> exec of the club attending automatically has all of the president's
>>>>>>> speaking rights, unless the president has requested otherwise.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now please resolve the ambiguity/contradiction in the
>>>>>>> policies/bylaws where club presidents are suggested to have speaking
>>>>>>> rights, but are not listed as non-voting members.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>> Dominik Chłobowski
>>>>>>> Treasurer, CSC
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2013/10/14 Josh <speaker at mathsoc.uwaterloo.ca>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I believe "council members" includes club presidents (which are
>>>>>>>> part of council as non-voting members) but not club vice presidents, but
>>>>>>>> that doesn't mean that they can't come (they just don't have speaking
>>>>>>>> rights, but can speak if someone with speaking rights sponsor them to
>>>>>>>> speak).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> @Cathrine: That seems like a very valid reason to make the meeting
>>>>>>>> start at 6:00 instead of 6:15. Everybody please consider this the proper
>>>>>>>> notice that the meeting will start at 6.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 13 October 2013 22:07, UW - Bioinformatics Club <
>>>>>>>> bic.uwaterloo.ca at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Josh,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Does "Council members" include club execs (like VP Finance or
>>>>>>>>> presidents of clubs)?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Shadrielle
>>>>>>>>> Co-President
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Josh <
>>>>>>>>> speaker at mathsoc.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Greetings Council,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There will be a council meeting on Wednesday, October 16th, 2013
>>>>>>>>>> in M3 4001 starting at 6:15 PM. Jeff Henry, the manager of student
>>>>>>>>>> development in the Student Success Office, will be attending the meeting
>>>>>>>>>> sometime between 6:45 and 7:00 to give an update and would like to hear
>>>>>>>>>> from our councilors regarding matters pertaining to uWaterloo's student
>>>>>>>>>> leadership strategies. Hopefully we can get most of the meeting done before
>>>>>>>>>> he arrives in the interest of not having the meeting run too late since
>>>>>>>>>> apparently sleep is a valuable commodity.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For all the first-year representatives, congratulations on
>>>>>>>>>> winning the election and hopefully you have not been scared away by the
>>>>>>>>>> budget meeting if you attended it. If you are lost as to how council works,
>>>>>>>>>> such as the language employed and procedure, I will be doing a Q&A session
>>>>>>>>>> which should hopefully get you oriented in the room starting at 6. Other
>>>>>>>>>> council members are welcome to attend if they would like a refresher or
>>>>>>>>>> mock me in the event I make a mistake (No, don't actually, but please
>>>>>>>>>> correct me).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I would like to apologize if people expected a TL;DR because I
>>>>>>>>>> tend to make the meeting notice contain a lot of flair. I have been hit by
>>>>>>>>>> a writer's block and I didn't want to confuse our new councilors with
>>>>>>>>>> strange language. (Stranger than usual, I mean).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>> Joshua Tsai
>>>>>>>>>> Speaker
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Council mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Council at mathsoc.uwaterloo.ca
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://mail-stanton.mathsoc.uwaterloo.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/council
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> UW Bioinformatics Club
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you wish to be removed from this mailing list, or know of
>>>>>>>>> someone who would like to join the club, feel free to e-mail us back.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>> Council at mathsoc.uwaterloo.ca
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://mail-stanton.mathsoc.uwaterloo.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/council
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
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>>
>
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>


-- 
*Elizabeth McFaul*
4B Honours Mathematics/Business Administration Double Degree
University of Waterloo/Wilfrid Laurier University*
Email:* elizabethmcfaul2 at gmail.com*
**
*
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